[quote author=imikhail link=topic=13627.msg159055#msg159055 date=1345168235]
There is a difference between inheriting sinful nature and inheriting the actual sin itself that Adam committed.
We all from our birth inherited the sinful nature as it is…
[quote author=Purity2 link=topic=13627.msg159052#msg159052 date=1345160078]
If u do not believe we have inherited the sin of our first mother and father Adam and Eve, then u have missed the WHOLE point of our Orthodox worship!
Why do u think we pray…
[quote author=imikhail link=topic=13627.msg159047#msg159047 date=1345145073]
[quote author=Severian link=topic=13627.msg159012#msg159012 date=1345067571]
^Thanks for the reply. Later I will try to find relevant Patristic quotes. But to clarify, in t…
^Thanks for the reply. Later I will try to find relevant Patristic quotes. But to clarify, in the Orthodox Church we do not believe we inherit Adam's actual sin or guilt, rather only his corrupt nature and inclination towards sinfulness. We are actu…
^*Thumbs up* I myself do not look Egyptian because one of my parents is American and I have often times been discriminated against and pushed away by some within my parish due to this. It is the Orthodox faith of Christ which keeps me going. Overall…
^Thank you for the input. But to clarify, are you saying it is appropriate to affirm we committed Adam's sin without inheriting his guilt? If so, how is this the case? I am not trying to take one side or the other, I just want to understand.
^Some good points. But please, if we discuss Chalcedon let's do it on a separate thread. I would like to stick to the topic at hand. What do you say then Stavro, is it appropriate to say we committed the sin of Adam?
I thought that that the two did mate before the fall, but that after the fall their sensuality was perverted and became more inclind towards immoral behavior.
Metropolitan Bishoy says:
"So, passing on death was caused by passing on sin."
Compare this to what St. Severus said:
"The sin of those who engendered us, viz. the sin of Adam and Eve, is not naturally (kata phusin) mixed with our substance (ousia),…
[quote author=The least of all link=topic=9585.msg158863#msg158863 date=1344917126]
I do feel that, with this upcoming generation, with knowledgeable people like yourself, the Coptic Orthodox Church can bring about a re-commitment to the fathers and…
[quote author=The least of all link=topic=9585.msg158858#msg158858 date=1344913345]
Uhm i would say it is in fact relatively common.
[/quote]What a shame. :(
[quote author=The least of all link=topic=9585.msg158856#msg158856 date=1344911831]
Wow Severian, way to steal my thunder :P ;)
[/quote]Sorry. :P
From your own experiences, is the inherent guilt doctrine common among Copts in your area? Thankfully…
Compare Met. Bishoy's words with those of Sts. Cyril and Severus:
Click
The two quotes I provided are in complete contrast to what he says at beginning, that is, we inherit Adam's guilt/fault.
Below, I will be providing Met. Bishoy's entire artic…
That We Do Not Inherit Adam's Guilt
+"What has Adam’s guilt to do with us? Why are we held responsible for his sin when we were not even born when he committed it? Did not God say : “The parents will not die for the children, nor the children for …
That We Are Not Saved By Faith Alone
+"Then, in the tenth place, work that which is good upon this foundation of dogma; for faith without works is dead, even as are works apart from faith."
-Saint Gregory of Nazianzus, Oration 40; On Holy Baptism,…
[quote author=Christs' servant link=topic=13619.msg158803#msg158803 date=1344835410]
"Some things in the Bible have no existence, but are spoken of; others which do exist are not spoken of" ~ St. Gregory Nazianzen
[/quote]Do you mind providing a tit…
Just a note: while I would ideally like this thread to focus on Pre-Nicene Church Fathers, if you would like to provide quotes from later Fathers, go ahead. Just try to specify the date of the quote(s).
On the Atonement of Christ
+"So he became sin to remit the sins of others: so also he paid the debt that was incurred for us, and we ourselves became righteousness in him; for those who have been freed from debts are righteous, and |203 are not te…
That Christ is True God and True Man Simultaneously
+"Although he was God, he took flesh; and having been made man, he remained what he was: God."
-Origen, The Fundamental Doctrines, 225 A.D.
+"We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we…
The Real Presence of Christ In the Eucharist
+"We do not consume the Eucharistic bread and wine as if it were ordinary food and drink, for we have been taught that as Jesus Christ our Savior became a man of flesh and blood by the power of the Word …
^Are you Chalcedonian or Oriental Orthodox?
Anyway, Orthodox Christians cannot commune with non-Orthodox faiths. Likewise, non-Orthodox cannot be communed in Orthodox Churches. The only time there is an exception to these rules is when special econ…
^OC.Net is for both OO and EO Christians. If you actually bothered to read the link I gave you would see that I linked to a post by a Coptic user (who also posts here) where he explains that all of the info on Coptichymns.net will be made available …
^He explicitly defends the belief that we inherit Adam's fault, which is the same thing. I wonder what Fr. Peter has to say on the matter.
And on the website linked to in my signature, Fr. Athanasius responds to H.E.'s article from a strictly Patri…